News out of Bend, Oregon is that male resident, Thomas Beatie, is 22 weeks pregnant. Articles have been written and an appearance on the Oprah Winfrey Show is scheduled. Looking closer, news of a Pregnant “Man” is just a myth.
Thomas Beatie, the Bend, Oregon man making news as a “Pregnant Man” was born Tracy LaGondino, a woman, 34 years ago. Tracy was a lesbian who fought for the right of gay couples to adopt children and against hate crimes in Hawaii, before moving to Bend 2 years ago.
Tracy fell in love with another woman, Nancy Roberts in Hawaii and they desired to be married, strictly against even Hawaii’s liberal laws.
Tracy decided she should obtain a sex change because Hawaii's laws did not support same sex marriage. She underwent a double radical mastectomy and began hormone therapy to change her gender to that of a male, but keeping her female reproductive organs.
When she and her lover decided they wanted a child, and Nancy could not become pregnant, Tracy, now renamed Thomas, ceased the hormone therapy to allow her menstrual flow to return. Tracy/Thomas said it took about 4 months for her body to regulate itself.
Consulting doctors, one who sent her to see a Psychologist “to see if we were fit to bring a child into this world,” she and Nancy finally obtained access to a cryogenic sperm bank to purchase anonymous donor vials and opted for “home insemination,” feeling that doctors who refused to help them due to their own ethical or religious views “discriminated” against the couple.
Tracy/Thomas now claims to be 5 months pregnant.
Writing an article about this “sensation” for the Gay publication, The Advocate, Tracy/Thomas maintains that she is now “transgender and legally male.” A quick review of Oregon Law reveals that the same court with jurisdiction over name changes
“may order a legal change of sex and enter a judgment indicating the change of sex of a person whose sex has been changed by surgical procedure.”Surgical procedure is not defined.
One Portland, Oregon attorney who specializes in sex discrimination cases says,
“There’s no specific requirement in the law that there be a letter from a surgeon. A specific judge might want to see a letter, but that’s it.”The same attorney, Lake James Perriguey also claims to know of several cases “in which a person received a legal change of sex on the basis of facial reconstruction.”
Tracy/Thomas said “she legally changed her name and sex about 10 years ago in Hawaii,” because of Hawaii’s ban on same sex marriage. I assume she had a judicial decree to declare herself now “legally male.”
However, in this writer’s opinion, being declared “legally male” does not make one actually male, especially given that her original female reproductive organs and vagina were left intact and viable.
Sexual gender is determined in nature by chromosomes. Two X chromosomes in the nucleus of the egg cell and it will become a female; a Y and an X chromosome and it will become a male. No judge can change that by judicial decree nor can any surgeon. Tracy/Thomas will carry the DNA of a female, regardless of the reconstructive surgery she may ever get. This is something we should have all learned in 7th grade Biology class.
Tracy/Thomas may claim whatever she wishes and any judge can decree what ever they wish, but the natural fact is, she is a woman still, like it or not. To claim otherwise is just fooling herself.
Equally fooling the public is the claim of a “pregnant man,” when by nature, it is a woman that is pregnant, as nature designed long ago.
Confusing headlines like, Pregnant Man Thomas Beatie From Oregon Puzzles Medicine and 'Pregnant' man stuns medical profession only perpetuates the myth that this is actually a male that is pregnant.
Tracy/Thomas’s neighbors have expressed their own skepticism about this “pregnancy.” One said,
“Quite frankly, I think it’s a hoax. I saw him a few days ago and he didn’t look like that,”regarding the photo circulating showing the swollen belly.
Another said,
“I couldn't say that he looks pregnant. I can stick my stomach out and almost make it look like that.”
Muddying the waters in this is Tracy/Thomas herself when she says, “
Wanting to have a biological child is neither a male nor female desire, but a human desire… Despite the fact that my belly is growing with a new life inside me, I am stable and confident being the man that I am…”
Regardless of claims made to further the Gay Agenda, no matter what any judge decrees, no matter how “confident” Tracy/Thomas may feel, the fact remains that if she has retained her baby making equipment, then she is in fact still biologically a woman, not a man.
To claim otherwise, she is only fooling herself and a naïve public.
July 3, 2008: Lesbian Activist Gives Birth! This Is News?
UPDATE 1: The motive seems to be getting clearer. From the Oprah Winfry Show, Pregnant man tells Oprah, It’s a miracle. Winfrey called the development "a new definition of what diversity means for everybody."
What is so miraculous about a woman with female reproductive organs becoming pregnant?
UPDATE 2: The hoax continues as news agencies declare Pregnant Man 4 Weeks From Delivery. They can blur the lines all they desire, having a vagina and female reproductive organs is a female, not a male, regardless of bodily mutilations.
UPDATE 3: Ben Shapiro of Townhall chimes in with his observation,
UPDATE 4: November 13, 2008: "He's" Pregnant Again, But It Is Still A Hoax
Posts
33 comments:
Thank you for a very sane argument against the pregnant "man"
You're Welcome, Lesley.
Common sense, rare in this upside down world today, says that a man cannot become pregnant.
Somehow I feel this claim is made to further the Gay Agenda or Same Sex Marriage. Wanting a baby doesn't seem to be the motivating factor in this and the publicity the couple are raising over it.
What's wrong with clarifying adverbs and phrases? It seems like we can all agree that Beatie is chromosomally and sexually female (in the sense of having female organs) but "self-identifies" as male. It seems altogether pointless to debate whether or not he's "really" male, like debating whether or not old English is "really" English.
Sure, if, say, a indicted criminal insists on being self-identified as innocent, that's obviously something we can't all go along with. But is it really that great a moral problem if someone decides they want to be considered male? As a man, I consider it the sincerest form of flattery... lol
lenoxus, I see you are falling for the clever little trap of blurring sexual identities, which I feel this is all about.
Once blurred, just get one Gay partner "legally" declared male (or female) and get legally married.
This isn't about "self-identity," but "legal identity."
If you support same sex marriage, then it is no problem to you. But, the majority of the public opposes it and if they too fall into the trap of the blurring, the logical next step is same sex marriage.
Going back to "self identity," if I decide to self identify as a pigeon, will society have a problem with me pooping on their cars? I would think so.
The only people who have a big problem with it, is the christain reich.
And the christain reich are the ones who have made it so difficult for same sex partners to adopt.
Leaving many children in the system with no hope for a family, or love.
While christain couples are instilling in their children to fear going to hell and the "devil, boogie man"
based on a book written by a MAN, named King James, who at the time wrote it to create revenue for his control over the people, {back then their was no separation of church and state}
At least same sex couples teach their children what they should really fear, christains, and christain beliefs...
Oh and also to close their minds to the truths in the world...
And not think for themselves..
Its a sad world we live in, with the close minded bigots all around us..christians.
Funny thing, jade, no one has said a word about Christians.
But, congratulations. You didn't blame Bush once.........yet.
lol Good one Lew. How else do you respond to something like that?
Nice pigeon comment, Lew. It kind of goes along with what I told a co-worker: if I shave my dog, then sew on some fins and a tail, I still haven't turned him into a fish. Thomas/Tracy is still a 'SHE', despite all the horrible things she's done to change her appearance. Does a woman cease being a woman simply because she no longer has breasts? Or because she cannot bear children? I think not, just ask someone who has had a mastectomy or a hysterectomy. Or are we all allowed to be whatever we want? I have to defer to the pigeon comment, Lew, because I already have a few prime targets lined up!
Thanks Parham & Roger. The notoriety this is getting in a positive way is just unbelievable. I can't believe people actually think this is a man.
Tracy/Thomas doesn't have a clue about being a man, just as I don't about being a woman.
As my wife says, she is just a mutilated woman who is pregnant. What's the big deal?
The reason it is such a big deal is because the so called liberal media the same liberal media run by huge conservative BUSH loving republicans is trying to take the countries eyes off of what is really important is this country. The fact that over 4000 soldiers have died for the BUSH administrations oil war so cleverly cloaked (but not really) as a war to install a democratic society in a part of the world where democracy is not embraced and hasn't been in its 1000's of years of existance.
Maybe if both the right and the left open their eyes' ridiculous stories like this wouldn't be such a big deal, and the problems that are destroying this country we call home, will finally get the coverage that will shed light on the things that will open the eyes of the sheeple in this country
What's that you say, "What is so miraculous about a woman with female reproductive organs becoming pregnant?" Think about it.
Good luck to Thomas and Congratulations! A baby is such a wonderful and sweet miracle. I am truly happy for him and his wife. In an article from the Opra show Thomas states that choosing to carry this baby was “a hard decision to make in the tough world we live on.” I can only hope his concerns are unfounded; either way good for him, he followed his heart and made the right choice. I wish Thomas and his wife happiness, joy, and all of the wonder a baby brings.
This is actually a very interesting development and the couple should be receiving a great deal of positive support. Carrying and delivering a baby is a physical challenge and I am sure there will be much to consider. Thomas should focus on health and happiness ... there will always be someone who will criticize us for imagined wrongs. Caring for a baby will have its own challenges and blessings. I am hopeful that Thomas and his wife will receive the love and support any loving couple deserves—especially when they decide to have and raise a child.
Congratulations, brett. You are the first to successfully tie Bush into this.
Seek treatment. BDS can be troublesome.
sls, you are as naive as anyone I've ever seen. Please explain what part of this person is a "man." No penis, no testicles. But, a vagina, a uterus, ovaries.
Like I said above, if I have a judge declare me a pigeon because I get some feathers surgically implanted on my body, society won't tolerate me pooping on cars.
I have no problem with them loving and desiring a baby, but why the push to be declared a "man" when she is obviously a woman?
Think about it.
first, i wish to address jade. your hatred of christianity seems to ignore the fact that there are many gay christians, and many christians who don't have a problem with gays and whatnot. conservative evangelical christians might not view those people as really christian, but as i don't believe in religion at all, and both groups teach things i don't believe in, they're all still christians to me, just different types. i don't recall religion being an issue here, though, as there are plenty of non-active christian-by-default people in this country who still believe strongly in the gender binary and are uncomfortable with gay people.
i don't have time to to a point-by-point critique of lew's post, but i wish to address something that is not merely a matter of opinion.
lew wrote, "Sexual gender is determined in nature by chromosomes. Two X chromosomes in the nucleus of the egg cell and it will become a female; a Y and an X chromosome and it will become a male. No judge can change that by judicial decree nor can any surgeon. Tracy/Thomas will carry the DNA of a female, regardless of the reconstructive surgery she may ever get. This is something we should have all learned in 7th grade Biology class."
well, 7th grade biology class doesn't teach everything. there are all sorts of ways of how gender is determined, and these ways conflict each other with respect to what nature (or god, if you prefer) creates. when you are born the doctors look at what's between your legs and say you're male if you have a penis, or female if you don't. sometimes it's actually not clear, and the doctor may make a choice as to what seems closest at the time and surgically alter it. today they might test to see if the baby is XX or XY, or one of the many other combinations, but in the past they didn't. there are women walking around who were born female, raised female, think that they are female, and have no idea that they're XY instead of XX like most women, until they have some reason for it to be tested. they have androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), which prevents their bodies from responding to testosterone. female athletes used to be tested to make sure they were XX, but this is no longer done (and not because of some gay or trans agenda). there are a variety of other examples of how gender/sex is unclear.
look into intersexed people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual
i am not claiming that thomas is intersexed. i don't claim that for myself, either. but there's a lot more to biology and gender than just XY or XX.
ashley,
What you say is true, but in the case of this "Pregnant Man",
It is biologically a Female, and there is nothing astonishing about the ability of this person to get pregnant.
The true cases, where physiological gender really is not clear, or where both male and female reproductive organs exist, are far more interesting than this case.
Ashley, I appreciate your view, but this particular case really has nothing to do with intersexuality. For the purpose of this discussion of a “man” being pregnant, the more common biological view was in order.
Tracy was born fully female and up until she entered College she seemed to have no problem being female. Her words were, "That's when I found myself. It was a process of self-discovery for me, and I ended up having my first girlfriend.”
In fact, from what I’ve read, she didn’t even have a problem being a lesbian up until her and Nancy wanted to get “married.”
She claims she decided to become a man and “to have chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy but kept my reproductive rights.” Sorry, it’s organs, not rights.
She also said, “Wanting to have a biological child is neither a male nor female desire, but a human desire,” and “Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns.” These are the words of an activist, which she openly was in Hawaii.
I say activist because even a lesbian being pregnant by artificial insemination isn’t rare. Those that truly desire to bear a child and love it usually don’t go before the world bragging about being something biologically they are not. They get pregnant, have the baby and raise it, without going out of their way for notoriety.
This is why I see this as a further blurring of the sexes with the intent of opening doors to same sex marriage.
Why is this such a big a big deal... it is a woman that is prego. GOD has never and will never make a man that is capable to give birth. That was his choice to live as a man... he should of went thru the full surgery so the world does not have to explain this bleep to the 7 and 10 year olds why a male is getting prego.
That's the whole point, Chico. She didn't have a full sex change, only breast removal and testosterone therapy.
That doesn't make her a man.
Still, given he attention she/he has brought about this, I can't help but feel it is agenda driven more so than desire of having and love of a child.
I don't know, of course, but my gut feeling.
I completely agree with you, Lew. While I wish for the best for Mr. Beatie and his daughter, I find that the media has spun the story out of control. All of the headlines are absolutely misleading. I actually believed for a moment that a true-born male became pregnant, defying anything that made sense out of our human anatomy.
I think Mr. Beatie should embrace the fact that he is a TRANSGENDER pregnant man, not simply a pregnant man and the media should clarify that in their headlines. He is a biological female, and a legal male. I'm sure Mr. Beatie wants to shed his feminine past but the fact that he decided to inseminate himself to become pregnant only brings out his FEMALE side out more. This is no pregnant man.
Lew, what you did takes balls.
(Found your post through the AFTAH site. Very good blogging.)
Thanks Jeremiah, I appreciate the comment.
Actually, speaking truth doesn't really take much courage, just the will to do it.
This really has nothing to do with same sex marriage or gender idenity, it has to do with the fact that this 'news' should not be news, women have babies everyday. Just because Beatie wants to look like a man doesn't make him/her some scientific phenom, and that is how they are protraying it in the media, which is a hoax. I am completely for same sex marriage, and gay parents adopting children. I have an uncle who has done both those things, and my cousins are great kids. There are many kids in this world who have been abandoned or abused and are living in foster care or even worse, and they should have a place to live and grow up and if gay parents can give them that then that is super. However, this couple is making america believe that a man is having a child which is in fact completely impossible, and all they are doing is bring a child into the world based on deception and a lot of confusion for her life in the future. Thank you Lew for also bringing common sense to this argument.
Blair, thank you for your comment.
You are right, this is a non-news story. But the fact that it was made into such a big story is what leads me to believe there are other intentions behind it, along with the knowledge that she has been an activist for gays for some time.
Personally, I have no problem with the gays and don't care what they do together. However, I draw the line at marriage because I see no benefit to society to make such a drastic change. I also fear just where changing the definition of marriage could lead to out of control marriages to just about anything, between just about anybody, including pedophiles, incestual and who really knows.
As I see it, once you break down the barrier and allow the definition of marriage be changed to include same sex, how do you stop others who begin crying discrimination?
Civil Unions I am more receptive of, but have grown leery of them as well since the California Supreme Court used their Civil Union Law as a basis to overturn he intent of the citizens and allow same sex marriage.
Adoptions, on the other hand, should be scrutinized on a case-by-case basis, for straights and gays.
Tracy/Thomas clearly had an agenda - after living for many years as a lesbian, but then being thwarten in her desire to "marry" another woman, she takes the radical step of horomone replacement therapy and surgery. She now tries this ruse to further her agenda, and the media is buying it, hook, line and sinker. I'd wager Gender Identity Disorder might be a factor, this situation is so insane and bizarre.... you gotta wonder...
In a sane world, we would rush to help this poor person with what is clearly a very deep set of problems regarding dealing with reality. Instead, we celebrate her sense of metaphysical chaos.
As you said, "in a sane world." We don't seem to live in an sanity today and sometimes, anyone sane is automatically listed as "insane."
Well, I think that this is all crazy. Just let him have a baby if "he" wants one, and stay out of everyone else's business!!
Dale, it isn't us that pry into "HER" business. "SHE" made it into a public spectacle.
"SHE" is the one falsely claiming to be a man when she is just another lesbian (not that there is anything wrong with that).
The "crazy" is those who think "SHE" is actually male now because her breasts were cut off.
If you really want others to stay out of your business then don't make such a public spectacle of yourself, drawing all the attention imagineable.
It is true that a person born a man can not bear children thus the headlines stating a man is pregnant are misleading. However, I beieve that if Thomas identifies as male and has become pregnant because his partner cannot, he is brave to do so seeing as there are alot of people in our society that are intolerant towards the LGBT community.
Lew, you have been questioning Thomas' motives for going so public with his pregnancy and have come to the conclusion that the only possible reason for him to go this public must be to gain publicity for lesbian rights and that he probably is either not really pregnant or does not want the baby. That is absurd. I cannot speak for Thomas when I say this but maybe he decided to go public and find support for his choice instead of hiding himself until the baby is born. While he is shining a light on lesbian rights he is first and foremost creating a family and there is nothing wrong with his decision to go public.
Lew, you have said, "Personally, I have no problem with the gays and don't care what they do together. However, I draw the line at marriage..." (as written above) The rest of this sentence goes on to discuss why same sex marriage has no benefit to society and then compares homosexuals to pedaphiles. Firstof all you clearly have a problem with people who differ from the hetersexual 'norm' or you would not have written the article you did. This is appaling. And secondly same sex couples are no different from heterosexual couples besides the obvious in that they choose same sex partners. They have not committed any crime and are no more inclined to commit a crime than a heterosexual person. To argue that allowing same sex couples to marry will open the flood gates to pedaphiles etc. is ludacris and devoid of any valid points.
In the end yes this article may be misleading if you read the headline and assumed the person the word 'man' refered to was a biological man, But i beleive that if Thomas identifies as male and wants a baby but his partner cannot have one by all means he should carry the baby himself.
By the way,Lew I will be here to support you when you decide to legally change your species and become a pigeon just as I am here supporting Thomas and his gender reassignment. However, when you decide to poop on someones car I will be celebrating the birth of Thomas' child and making sure you recieve the reprimanding you deserve.
Carly, first and foremost, I appreciate your polite tone.
Now, let’s look at your rebuttal. You admit, “the headlines stating a man is pregnant are misleading,” yet go on to identify her as ”he” throughout your comment.
Even though the other woman in the relationship could not get pregnant, another woman getting pregnant is neither brave nor admirable as women getting pregnant, even lesbians, is really quite common. Most of society no longer really cares about even a lesbian that becomes pregnant, although I will admit there are some fringe that abhor such a thing.
I base my assumption of this being agenda driven because of her admitted activism in Hawaii prior to undergoing a double mastectomy to fool people into thinking she is a man. Many did because of that and the testosterone she took allowed her to have the male facial hair, even though slightly.
However, she retained her female reproductive organs, not “rights.” That biological difference between men and women is one of the major differences between the sexes, others being chromosomes and skeletal make-up as well as others. It has also been shown that our thinking process also differs.
In the case of Tracy/Thomas, the majority of photos of her, posed as they are, are without a shirt and flexing before a mirror, as if that is what men are about. Sorry, but that is a woman’s caricature of what we men are about. On the opposite you see female impersonators, men, who grossly exaggerate the female look and actions, as they too have no real idea of what women are completely about.
I don’t believe I ever actually questioned whether she was pregnant or not, just stated that others did that live around them. However, that point was rendered moot when she gave birth last year and has since become pregnant with a second child and yes, made a public announcement again.
Funny thing about the second announcement was her notion of wishing everyone would leave them alone as she desires to “live a quiet life.” Why make a public spectacle of yourself if you desire “a quiet life?”
As for same sex marriage, yes, there is a slippery slope there that is real. In Europe, where same sex marriage has been more tolerated, one woman actually married a porpoise! In another European case, a multi-marriage was performed between men and women, inter-marrying each other.
But, my main point is, once you break down that door of marriage being one woman one man, how do you close it again for others who also want that right to marriage?
I fully acknowledge too that not all gays are pedophiles, even though young men are special to the gays I know (yes, I know and associate with some). Pedophilia is also in straights. But, the distancing of many Gay Advocate groups from the pedophiles was very recent and in order to gain more acceptance. That also will not prevent groups of pedophiles from hanging onto the coattails of the gay movement to gain acceptance. Just look to NAMBLA, who are lobbying to have the age of consent lowered to 11.
I don’t know about you, but older males desiring sex with younger males sounds male on male to me, hence also homosexual. Not all Gay men, just some.
So much for your “ludicrous and devoid of any merit” thought.
You are also wrong as to my intent on writing this article last year. It is nothing more than a hoax for whatever reason Tracy/Thomas has. She is clearly still a female with full female reproductive organs intact.
As for the carrying of the baby, I actually have no problem with “HER” carrying a baby, but, as even you first said, identifying HER as a HE is misleading.
In closing, I’ll also say that you missed the point of the pigeon analogy completely. Although it is admirable that you would fully support my choice to have myself declared a pigeon, I have a strong hunch that should I climb up on the hood of your car and defecate on it, you’d be quite perturbed. Yet, you would “reprimand” me for doing what is natural to pigeons, but celebrating an unnatural declaration of a child born of a male.
the only reason this is a "big deal" is because people like you are making it one. instead of just accepting that this is how he/she wishes to live life and just be happy for him/her. You feel the need to debate is over and over for a very long time. If people who were not so against it didnt say anything kept to themselves and let people live their own lives without hateful comments and opinions (like mom used to say, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.")then this wouldn't be a big deal to anyone but the people who are actually living it so the people that spend there time talking about how wrong someone they never met is. then would this have made it to this page would this much of your life have been wasted talking about how better you are from them because you don't see life through their eyes. Just a thought for your brains be happy for people that have found joy. maybe one day you will be a happy person who doesn't have to put down everyone who is different from you just to make yourselfs feel better about how you see the world.
Wrong! It is a "big deal" because she made it that way by making it a National Publicity Stunt. No one sought her and her partner out and Lesbians having children is no big deal, it is fairly common place today.
I'm surprised that you all can't see that she basically thumbs her nose at fellow lesbians by declaring herself a "man" when all she did was go through a mastectomy and take a few hormones.
You see, it is she making a mockery, not us.
Just remember, she is the one who decided to go on National TV and proclaim herself a "pregnant man," when she is nothing of the sort.
Check out this, Insemination fight ends in “wife’s” arrest
A women, gay or straight, becoming pregnant today isn't really news, unless you pull something to draw attention to yourself over it.
Better luck next time.
Absolutely is the "pregnant man" a hoax. She's a woman--a pregnant bearded lady. She lives in our neighborhood and is expecting her second child now. I wish people would give up on this "trans-gender" stuff. If you want to be gay or lesbian, be gay or lesbian. Just don't try to change who you are.
Thank you, Rosalinda, for a sane and common sense comment.
All the "reasoning" applied to Tracey cannot change the fact that she is a woman, not a man.
In today's society, no one really cares all that much if one is Gay or Lesbian, until they begin shoving their chosen way of life upon others.
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